Suffering as Discipline

Watch this lesson on YouTube, or listen to it here.   

Access the slide deck here. 

1) In this next section, we will look at some different objectives of suffering. This is different from the last two classes where we talked about WHY suffering happens (i.e. as a natural consequence of sin, and punishment from God). These next classes will focus on WHAT the suffering may seek to accomplish.

2) I will not follow this list, but it’s an example of what we will be doing in these next classes:

A)   “In the backdrop of the theodicies we discuss below lurks the specter of punishment theodicy, which has haunted theological discourse on evil. Punishment theodicy argues that God employs suffering to punish sin. Pain functions as divine discipline, God’s cosmic belt that serves multiple purposes: ‘Defenders of the punishment theodicy have argued that pain can be good for one (or more) of four things: rehabilitation, deterrence, societal protection, and retribution.’”[1]

B) Explanations:

1) Retribution: Justice. To do the crime, you do the time.

2) Rehabilitation: The goal is to reform an individual’s character.

3) Deterrence: The goal of pain is to prevent future sin.

4) Societal protection. Sinners are isolated to keep others safe.

Suffering as Discipline

1) Heb. 12:3-11

A)   vv. 5-6 are quoted from Prov. 3:11-12.

1) Proverbs context: A father’s advice to a son he loves (1:8, 10; 2:1; 3:1).

2) Prov. 3:11-12 is a part of that advice.

B) “Discipline” = paideia

1) This word is found 6 times in the NT

(a)   4 of the 6 are in this text (vv. 5, 7, 8, 11)

(b)   Eph. 6:4 – “Fathers, do not provoke your children to anger, but bring them up in the discipline and instruction of the Lord.”

(c)   2 Tim. 3:16 – “All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction and for training in righteousness…”

2) Def.

(a)   BDAG

(i) The act of providing guidance for responsible living.

(ii)  The state of being brought up properly.

(b)   L/N – To punish for the purpose of improved behavior.

3) Question: What is the difference between discipline and instruction?

(a)   Instruction is teaching.

(b)   Discipline is teaching through pain.

2) Kindness vs Love

A)   CS Lewis talks about the difference between kindness and love in The Problem of Pain, ch. 3.

1) Kindness desires only the removal of suffering. It is indifferent to the moral goodness of the recipient. It just wants them to feel comfortable. This is happiness on any terms.

2) Love is exacting. It is defined by its desire for the beloved’s perfection.

3) Lewis – “By the goodness of God we mean nowadays almost exclusively His lovingness; and in this we may be right. And by Love, in this context, most of us mean kindness—the desire to see others than the self happy; not happy in this way or in that, but just happy. What would really satisfy us would be a God who said of anything we happened to like doing, ‘What does it matter so long as they are contented?’ We want, in fact, not so much a Father in Heaven as a grandfather in heaven—a senile benevolence who, as they say, ‘liked to see young people enjoying themselves’, and whose plan for the universe was simply that it might be truly said at the end of each day, ‘a good time was had by all’.”

B) I think most people can appreciate this concept in raising our kids.

1) Some parents confuse love with kindness, but it is not love to never displease your children.

(a)   Prov. 13:24 – “He who withholds his rod hates his son, but he who loves him disciplines him diligently.”

(b)   Prov. 23:13-14 – “Do not withhold discipline from a child; if you strike him with a rod, he will not die.  If you strike him with the rod, you will save his soul from Sheol.”

2) Jordan Peterson: 12 Rules for Life.

(a)   Rule 5: Do not let your children do anything that makes you dislike them.

(b)   “You love your kids, after all. If their actions make you dislike them, think what an effect they will have on other people, who care much less about them than you. Those other people will punish them, severely, by omission or commission. Don’t allow that to happen. Better to let your little monsters know what is desirable and what is not, so they become sophisticated denizens of the world outside the family.”

3) Chris Koerner X post on 2/10/26: https://x.com/mhp_guy/status/2021244390929244558

(a)   MAIN POINT

(i) What would the kind thing to do? i.e. What would make them the happiest?

(ii)  What is the loving thing to do even though it inflicts pain and suffering?

(b)   We stopped waking our kids up for school. 4 kids ages 9 - 15 in 4 different schools.

(c)   Last week my wife and I woke up and were like "What are we even doing? Why are we waking up our kids for school? Over and over?

(d)   Oh, and why are we still making the 9 year old's lunch?"

(e)   We want them to be high agency people, and to experience consequences. They all have alarm clocks. And hands.

(f) But sometimes we don't live according to what we believe.

(g)   So we stopped waking them up and making them lunch - cold turkey. Kids were late. Panic ensued (for like 2 days). No one died or starved.

(h)   We should have done it years ago.

(i) If you let them fail small at home then the failure will be much more manageable outside of the home.

(j) That's the gamble we're taking, anyway. I'll let you know if it works in 30 years.

4) POINT

(a)   As parents, we don’t just give our kids everything they want that makes them happy because we love them. We care about their ultimate good, which means sometimes we intentionally cause them to suffer.

(b)   We have a God who LOVES us.

5) David’s example

(a)   2 Sam. 13:21 – “When King David heard of all these things, he was very angry.”

(i) We can only speculate about WHY he didn’t do anything

(ii)  Textual issue: ESV Note: Dead Sea Scroll, Septuagint add “But he would not punish his son Amnon, because he loved him, since he was his firstborn.”

(iii)          POSSIBLE REASONS #1: This was David’s family and they received special treatment.

(iv) POSSIBLE REASONS #2: I suspect David felt paralyzed because he knew that he was the root of the problem.

(b)   1 Kgs. 1:5-6 – David never discipline Adonijah.

(c)   cf. Eli – 1 Sam. 2:29

C) How does the presence of suffering indicate love (and not just kindness)?

1) “But pain insists upon being attended to. God whispers to us in our pleasures, speaks in our conscience, but shouts in our pain: it is His megaphone to rouse a deaf world. A bad man, happy, is a man without the least inkling that his actions do not ‘answer’, that they are not in accord with the laws of the universe.”[2]

D)   Suffering is an alarm bell that shatters two fundamental human illusions:

1) All is well. The universe is fundamentally safe and comfortable regardless of our moral standing.

2) Self-reliance. The belief that what we have is our own and enough for us.

(a)   God is often “inconvenient” when our lives are smooth and predictable. Pain destroys our false happiness and idols (pride, productivity, health, sense of control) and forces us into a posture of humility and dependence. It makes us admit our helplessness and requires us to find ultimate rest and reliance in the one who truly is in control.

(b)   Deut. 8:2-6

3) Bible

A)   The curses are not only for punishment

1) Lev. 26:14ff., 40-41ff.

2) Deut. 28:15ff.; 30:1-2ff.

B) The Judges Cycle

1) Apostasy

2) Bondage

3) Cries out for help

4) Deliverer

5) Enjoys rest

C) Hos. 6:1-2

D)   Amos 4:6-12. God tried to help people be prepared to meet him, but they would not listen.

E)    Phil Roberts – “Sometimes God sends suffering, not so much as punishment for our sins, but rather, to wake us up and get us to repent and turn away from sin.”

F) 1 Cor. 5:4-5 – Church discipline is supposed to be love for a person, not kindness.

G)   1 Cor. 11:29-32

1) ESV Note: When we are judges we are being disciplined…

H)   Rev. 3:19

4) Reframe the whole situation in this light.

A)   Many people look at bad things (evil and suffering) and say, “How can there be an all-good God when suffering like this exists?”

B) I want to train my heart to see this instead: When things are hard and suffering happens – “I’m so glad I have a Father who LOVES me and wants what is ultimately best for me.”

C) NOTE: It’s easy to say in a class. It’s hard to cause your brain to default to this in the moment. Practice now.

[1] Mark Scott, Pathways in Theodicy

[2] CS Lewis, The Problem of Pain